Posted by Buddy on January 26, 2003 at 10:47:39:
In Reply to: Damn it! He died :( posted by SilverSeahorse on January 26, 2003 at 04:37:25:
Hi Terri, well for one thing with freshwater dipping, you use RO water and it must be the same temperture of his tank. But as for a beginner in dipping, you need to friest learn each fishes stress level limit, it really becomes a factor and while dipping you are holding the fish in your hand(s), and it not a process to repeat as often.
Now as for you buying any new arrivals, you have to wait for six weeks before you can buy a new fish to add to this tank, you need to be sure that none the problems you have is still effecting any the fishes in this tank.
Now as for how to do it, you first need this hospital tank setup, little to no gravel and some item that the fish can hide in and besides that a small powerhead in the tank with a heater, temperture to be 82F, and you will need no light. And the way to have this with water conditions is you take the water from your main tank and place in this hospital tank, then you add the copper as i explained to you in the other posted response to you, then you have the formalin which you will add on the 5th day, 2 drops per gallon and 3 days later you will repeat this with the formalin, and thats it. And the other thing is on this hospital tank, your filter is to have no carbon and if any skimmer, you slow the skimmer action down, and ofcourse no UV. And one more little detail here, before you switch any fish to anoth tank, you always prepare them in a pail with water from there main tank and water from the hospital tank, "SLOWLY" ..... One other thing Terri, no matter were you get any info about this or any other thing in this marine hobby, always be careful to what advice you follow, aftre all there failures can become yours. Happy Fishing
><{{{{"> Buddy
:But at least I learnt a lot of value lessons from it. I have the copper based product for next time. I have learnt how to set up a proper hospital tank.
:But I do have a few extra questions. Fresh water baths. How do you do them? I read that you put them in freshwater (obviously dechlorinated etc) for 30 seconds. You then put them back in salt water. Repeat 2 more times then place the fish in a hospital tank with the copper based medication. Is this how you would do it?
:I feel kinda sad now because I had a 215 gallon tank waiting for him. I know this sounds silly, but I almost feel bad considering what else to put in the tank!!! A friend asked me if I was upset because he was an expensive fish, but the money didn't matter, he was cool!!
:
:: No worry to how long your doing this hobbyist, now one thing is i to when it first was with me to treat any of mine marine animals for ich, now then too some 40 years ago there was tablets medications and they either worked in a week or so, or not at all, but ever since i began just using copper with formalin, i had a better recovery rate. Now depending on the stress of each fish i also freshwater dip, like the last time i needed to dip or use any medications was when my Queen Trigger was 2 1/2" herself, at that time i freshwater dip here and placed her in the hospital tank, with the copper i mention to you, but the amazing then with her was, 12 hours later , in the morning i checked on her and she was completely cleared of ich. I never saw such an amazing response in all my years, but i still went thru the full treatment, five days later i placed in the formalin, with the formalin you only do two treatments, no more, its 2 drops per gal.
:: I`m sorry to hear that the copper i told you about, you cant get it, now is that the only store near to you that maybe you can get it else where.
:: WOW, you live in Australia, darn i cant tell you of the copper that`s there may be different, all i can say then is try to use one that dosen`t say coppersafe, it`s still a copper to use but it`s not as good then the one i told you about. And if so, you need to use a copper test kit, now the cheaper copper test kit in most stores here, dosen`t read the full copper level in a system, now if you have a expensive copper test kit, then there be no problem, just test until you have a copper of 3 PPM, but if you use the cheaper test kit, then set within the tank a copper level between 2 and 3 PPM, as i said those cheaper test kits dosen`t read the full amount of copper in the system.
:: OK, as for parasites, well first of all, you have the salinity high, for a fish only system i maintain them from 1.021 to 1.022, and my reef systems are 1.024, now i don`t know what you know about, but if this tank isn`t your hospital tank, that it is your main tank, well one thing i would do is slowly lower the salinity between 1.020 to 1.021, to cuts the chances for parasites to survive as well, but for that, a salinity of 1.020 be better.
:: And, no, to over medication it wont knock out your bio filtration, what will do it is a mix of two medications at the same time, like i mention with copper and formalin. Now as for getting rid any parasites, what if it takes 16 days or what ever, one sure way is to lower your salinity, as for medication tablets, i hadn`t used them in so many years and i been better off too. And to maintain it that way after afew months begin to raise it to normal but alos for any new arrivials, maintain a smaller tank to quarantine for 6 to 8 weeks, i mean look at it, ever since i done this for years i never had ich in my main tanks.
:: So Terri, if you need to ask anything, just post it and i`ll respond as soon as possible. I just wish to point out, that i too used things like those tablets, in my days they were more a headache then anything in those days, im talking about 40 years ago.
:: Happy fishing ><{{{{"> Buddy
::
:::I realise that you have been doing this hobby for a lot longer than I have. I have only been doing it for a year now. Since I am only 25 there is no possible way that I could have been doing it for 41 years!! This is why I am asking for advice!!
:::Yes I know that the queen trigger will have to be moved. I have a 215 gallon tank sitting on my bedroom floor at the moment. I am not looking to set it up until I get my other fish well. I am concentrating on them first. Yes I know that they are aggressive. He bites anyone who puts there hand too close to his hole. Other than that he is pretty laid back. I know that he will attack the other fish when he gets bigger, but as I said, I am moving him.
:::I am not sure why I said that nitrate was 0. I probally meant nitrite. Since I am a chemist you think that I would be able to get it right! I said the other drug in the first medication I was using was quinine chlorohydrate when if I had thought about it for about 2 seconds I would have realised that it would have HAD to have been quinine hydrochloride due to the chemical formula.
:::I am using a trisulfate medication now. I was not able to get the medication that you mentioned. I live in Australia so everything here has a different name and it is difficult to find the exact things that you guys have access too. Yes I have read the directions and I realise that if I overdose then I could knock out my biological filter, but I am following the directions to the letter. I am used to doing that. I borrowed a data logger from work to get some better readings on my tank. Ammonia is nil, nitrite is nil, specific gravity (based upon electrical conductivity test is 1.025). pH is fine. Tank temp is 78.8F. I talk in degrees celcius and I was estimating what that would have been in F. Sorry. I talked to the owner of the aquarium shop (who has been doing this for 22 years) and he told me that this should knock out the parasite. Any other suggestions about this?? The medication says to dose the tank (one tablet per 10 gallons) and that it should be cleared after three days. It then says in severe cases to dose it again 3 days later. Since I have read that the lifecycle of this parasite is 16 days, do you think it would be worth doing it for longer or would that knock out the bio filter?
:::No I have not relaxed on tank maintainance. I have been doing 10% water changes weekly for about 12 months now. I have been watching the levels like a hawk. I love my fish. So much personality.
:::Thanks Terri
:::
:::
:::: You said that the temperture is 82F, why is this your hospital tank? the temperture should be 77 to 79 F, only time anyone has a 82F temperture is when there is a sick fish, and angelfishes dont do well with higher tempertures.
:::: ><{{{{"> Buddy
::::
::::: You will not be able to keep her for long, for one thing, she will grow some 10" by the 10th month you have her, she`ll eat everything and some where at about the time she is 5" to 6" she begin to attack you while your trying to clean inside, and i think you should believe me on this, you try to slap her some to fear her off, but it wont work, she is fearless, and in time will be the main boss, but what you need to do is decide what you will do, setup a 240 gal tank? well thats what you will need for when she grows larger, and she`ll be the only one in the tank, unless you can get a fish that the queen trigger can respect if not she will attack, what you will see is, when she does respect the other fishes she like bump into and act little aggressive and before you know it, you see the other fish dead. My Queen Trigger is now about 16" and is in a 240 gal tank, and she is alone, and even today when i need to clean inside i always have to fight with her, but the thing i knew is i knew what i was getting, i understood this fish agrressiveness. And the queen grows twice the size the clown trigger. At one time my queen was with 3 other fishes and before a year can pass since i got her she was alone in her own tank. Before she was alone sje was with my 10 golden puffer, some times she piss him off, but i knew from those actions that sooner or later she will attck even the puffer.
::::: Ok, now you say you have no nitrates, in a fish only everyone will have nitrates no matter who`s the hobbyist, in my 150 dragon moray tank i have only 17 PPM nitrate. Now dont you relax on your maintenance, see for one thing many hobbyist, mostly the new one`s think because the test says no ammonia or nitrites it doesn`t mean that one`s water is of best quality, this is a fact, see as one thing, im doing this aquarium hobby for 44 years, and 41 those years are marine tanks. Now in your response to me answearing you about treatment, you didn`t say anything about it in your last post what if you going to go with it or you have some questions about it.
::::: Happy Fishing ><{{{{"> Buddy
::::::The queen trigger is small at the moment. He is about 2 1/2 inches. He is in a 100 gallon tank. He lives with a common clownfish and a domino damsel. They are both full grown. He also used to live with the most aggressive talbot damsel in the world until 2 days ago. (1 inch long and the most aggressive/territorial fish you have ever seen, I am not kidding!!).
::::::In the tank is a whole stack of live rock and one large piece of sandstone. The water quality keeps testing fine. No ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, temp 82 degrees, pH 8.3 specific gravity 1.023. Something must be wrong obviously! The only thing that I have added recently is a new coral. They have all lived together for 8 months then bang. This happens.
::::::I went to the fish shop and bought some of the medication. I will dose the tank tonight when I get home.
::::::
::::::: What ever your doing isnt correct, my first choice would be copper treatment and if needed formalin but you in no way add both at the same time or even a day later, once begin treatment with copper, you wait until the fifth day before adding formalin, if you add both near the same time, you will have a bio-filtration break down, and then you will have very high nitrites. Now if you began treatment with copper, you would find that the Queen trigger would respond with a complete recover in the first 24 hours, for some reason they recover rather fast, but treatmeant must be what`s correctly needed.
::::::: If you do have a queen trigger, what is the tank size his in? what size his now? You do know they grow very large, and fast and is the meanest the trigger species, what ever you got in there with him, in time he will attack, queen triggers are also known to attack divers, ofcourse you dont hear of it.
::::::: Use copper, if i spell this right, its spelled cupermine, if not spelled correct, well none the copper`s out their have the same name, but in no way get the copper-safe stuff. And if you use the cheap test kit for copper, get the copper level in the middle the 2PPM and 3PPM , see for one thing the cheap tester dont read the correct amount copper. And by no means do water changes after water changes. And when ever you do a gravel cleaning, never steer up the gravel, only 1" depth.
::::::: So my questions are, what size is this queen trigger and size tank his in, also what other marine animals share this aquarium with him????
::::::: Happy Fishing ><{{{{"> Buddy
:::::::
:::::::
::::::::Ok, my fish have come down with white spot (Ich). I have been medicating the tank every 3 days and doing 25% water changes every three days. I can't remember the name of the medication but it contains Malachite green and quinine chlorohydrate(?). I have done this for about 9 days now. The fish that originally had it (Queen trigger) is looking better, but two days ago one of them who had not had it suddenly came down with it and died last night (Talbot damsel).
::::::::I have been cleaning the gravel with the gravel cleaner and keeping the lights low. What else can I do to get rid of the stupid thing?? I know that the lifecycle takes 16 days and has 4 stages, one being a free swimming parasitic stage which is the only stage in which the medication can work etc etc. I feel somewhat helpless.
::::::::Poor little fish. So itchy.
::::::::I don't want anymore of them to die.
:::::::
:::::::
::::::
::::::
:::::
:::::
::::
::::
:::
:::
::
::
:
:
